So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests They're just moving around freely. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. I can't. And they were using all the habitat. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! We'll hear from her periodically through the show. History of Mountain Lions in New Hampshire | NH Wildlife Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Monadnock Ledger-Transcript - Claims of mountain lions spread The report came in from a conservation officer. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. So give us a call now. Administrative Links. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. So there's even debate about that very subject. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Less successful males roam further. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . 44-H Links. Sandy Hodskins, owner of West Meadow Farm in Bradford, New Hampshire, took time from shoveling Wednesday to enjoy the snow with her horse, West Wind. Rick your thoughts. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. They just end up in these places. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. So that did it for me. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. They don't know the direction they're going. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Thank you. Do they travel. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. And it was unmistakable. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Thanks for calling. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Right. They kill big animals. You need a permit to have that. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. On a dirt road. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". So and so they so they do get pretty involved. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Thank you very much for being here. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. So what those ranges. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. So Michael follows with the question. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. Like why would you want one wildlife. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! No doubt in my mind it was. If so that's for us as an agency. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. I tracked cats and all the western states. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. Mountain Lions | Wildlife | New Hampshire Fish and Game Department Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. 'Like we did as kids': Horse makes snow angels with her owner in New N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Ask Sam: Why Won't New Hampshire Admit There Are Mountain Lions Here Gap Mountain Lions Club We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. Oh you saw him online. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. These were normal everyday folks. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. And so. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. So you want identifiable backgrounds. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Mountain lion or cat running across. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. Caller: Hi. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. N.H. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests - AP NEWS Seems reasonable! As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. Does not test random Scouts. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Saddleback Mountain Lions There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Good morning guys. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. Can you tell us about that story. So take care of this problem. And those are not the same things. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. I'll send it to you. Women control our lives. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? Part II. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Mountain Lion in New Hampshire? - Bowsite.com Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. You don't know what's going on. So now what's going on. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. 1,470 likes. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Think you've seen a mountain lion? So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Think You Saw A Mountain Lion in N.H.? - New Hampshire Public Radio But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Think you've seen a mountain lion. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. You know interactions are pretty unusual. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Mountain Lions in New England: Sightings, Science & Bobcat vs Mountain Lion Patrick Tate: Yes. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. Select image for larger view. This is the exchange. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. I don't know if she still is. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Thanks very much. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? - WMUR As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. Peter Biello: Yeah. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. brings a lot of. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. I'm Peter B yellow. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. So let's let's go to the phones. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. Thank you very much for listening. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. A lot of times. It's good to talk to you. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. Okay. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Really appreciate it. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are.
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